Jack Smith was the hyper-partisan special counsel appointed by Joe Biden who tried, at the federal level, to get Donald Trump thrown into prison, thus ending his political career. His efforts supplemented those of the notorious Fani Willis in Georgia and Alvin Bragg in New York, who represented the Democratic Party at the state level. Scott, seeing Smith’s photos, memorably dubbed him “Krazee-Eyez Killa,” after the look-alike Curb Your Enthusiasm rapper. Killa sat for a deposition conducted by the House Judiciary Committee on December 17.
Other aspects of the deposition have given rise to minor news stories, but I want to concentrate on just one point: Smith’s determination to send Trump to prison for his actions relating to the January 6 protest in Washington. I don’t think Trump covered himself in glory that day, but what did he do that was a crime? He said that he thought the election had been stolen. So what?
Q But the President’s statements that he believed the election was rife with
fraud, those certainly are statements that are protected by the First Amendment, correct?A Absolutely not. If they are made to target a lawful government function and they are made with knowing falsity, no, they are not. That was my point about fraud not being protected by the First Amendment.
Q I mean, there is a long list of disputed elections, I mean, the election of 1800,
1960, year 2000, where candidates believed they were wronged by the — you know, because they lost. And there’s a long history of candidates speaking out about they believe there’s been fraud, there’s been other problems with the integrity of the election process. And I think you would agree that those types of statements are sort of at the core of the First Amendment rights of a Presidential candidate, right?
Of course they are. Election integrity is a critically important issue on which all are allowed to speak freely. Watch what Smith does next:
A There is no historical analog for what President Trump did in this case. As we said in the indictment, he was free to say that he thought he won the election. He was even free to say falsely that he won the election.
But what he was not free to do was violate Federal law and use knowing — knowingly false statements about election fraud to target a lawful government function. That he was not allowed to do. And that differentiates this case from any past history.
Smith refers here to the counting of electoral ballots that was going on in the Capitol on January 6. There is a federal crime of interfering with lawful processes, but Trump never told his supporters, or anyone else, to obstruct the electoral vote counting. On the contrary, he told them to demonstrate peacefully and patriotically.
More, from later in the deposition:
Q So did you develop evidence that President Trump, you know, was responsible for the violence at the Capitol on January 6th?
A So our view of the evidence was that he caused it and that he exploited it and that it was foreseeable to him.
Not a crime, obviously.
Q But you don’t have any evidence that he instructed people to crash the Capitol, do you?
A As I said, our evidence is that he in the weeks leading up to January 6th created a level of distrust. He used that level of distrust to get people to believe fraud claims that weren’t true. He made false statements to State legislatures, to his supporters in all sorts of contexts and was aware in the days leading up to January 6th that his supporters were angry when he invited them and then he directed them to the Capitol.
True or not, none of this is even arguably a crime.
Now, once they were at the Capitol and once the attack on the Capitol happened, he refused to stop it.
“Refusing to stop it,” assuming that is correct, is not a crime.
He instead issued a tweet that without question in my mind endangered the life of his own Vice President. And when the violence was going on, he had to be pushed repeatedly by his staff members to do anything to quell it.
And then even afterwards he directed co-conspirators to make calls to Members of Congress, people who had were his political allies, to further delay the proceedings.
Nothing itemized here is even close to being a criminal act. Trump had a legal theory according to which the vice president had discretion to decide which slate of electors to approve in a disputed state. It was a weak legal theory, to be sure. But was it as weak as, for example, the theory the Supreme Court accepted in Roe v. Wade? No. In any event, advancing a weak legal argument is obviously not a crime.
What follows is softball questioning by the Democrats:
Q And during our hour, we talked a lot about the knowledge that Mr. Trump had, one, that he had lost the 2020 election; two, that what he was saying to the American public was false about the 2020 election.
I think Trump sincerely believed, and still believes, that he won the 2020 election. Smith’s evidence that he knew he was lying is that some Republicans told him he was wrong.
Can you help now bring us full circle on how you analyzed the First Amendment claims with the knowledge of the fraud that Mr. Trump was putting out to the American public in 2020 and 2021?
A Sure. From a legal perspective, this is really quite clear. I think all of us want to make sure people’s First Amendment rights are not abridged in a way that they shouldn’t be. I think I certainly feel that way. I’m sure everybody in this room feels that way.
But there is a very clear carve-out for fraud in our case law. The Supreme Court — I think there’s — one case is the Stevens case, talks about that, and there are others. And so when you’re committing a fraud, meaning you’re not just saying something that’s untrue, you’re saying it knowing it’s untrue or with reckless disregard for the truth, that’s not protected by the First Amendment.
That is completely untrue. If you defame someone with knowledge that what you are saying is untrue, it is actionable. But it is not a crime. In any event, defamation law has no application here. Politicians say things all the time with reckless disregard for the truth. Kamala Harris? Chuck Schumer? Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? Nancy Pelosi? Send them all to prison! Or rather, let’s not.
People commit crimes all the time using words. And when someone commits a
fraud, an investment fraud, or someone commits an affinity fraud, where you try to gain someone’s trust, get them to trust you as a general matter, and then you rip them off, you defraud them, that’s all words, but it’s not protected by the First Amendment.
Of course that is true. It is a point I have made many times. “Speech” within the meaning of the First Amendment does not mean all talking or writing. My favorite illustration is the gangster who says, “Shoot him, Bugsy,” and Bugsy shoots him. The gangster does not have a First Amendment defense because all he did was talk.
Fraud pretty much always involves communication, either written or oral. But that does not mean that fraud is insulated from prosecution. If you say, “Our records show that this company had a net income of $400 million last year, so you should buy it,” and in fact the company lost money and the records are fake, you are guilty of fraud and are likely to go to prison. You don’t have a First Amendment defense because all you did was talk.
Smith obviously understands this, but he pretends not to:
And in a lot of ways this case was an affinity fraud. The President had people who he had built up — who had built up trust in him, including people in his own party, and he preyed on that. Some people wouldn’t do it. Others would. We’re lucky that enough wouldn’t that the election was upheld.
This is pitiful. Trump saying he thought that he actually won the 2020 election was not “affinity fraud” because some of his supporters might believe it. It was political speech that is entitled to the core protection of the First Amendment.
In fact, Trump may very well have been right. As I argued here, there were several million ballots counted for Joe Biden in 2020 that were almost certainly illegal, the result of voter fraud.
The debate over election integrity is one that desperately needs to take place. Jack Smith’s effort to shut down that debate by imprisoning President Trump because he said the unsayable–our election processes are inadequate, and are highly susceptible to fraud–was disgraceful. Smith should be relegated to America’s Hall of Shame, along with Fani Willis and Alvin Bragg.
If Smith were truly committed to transparency, he would respond to Sen. Grassley’s request for information concerning the special counsel’s investigation.